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Supernatural Thursdays: Let’s Talk About Bobby and Cas

Bobby and Cas

I live with my best friend, and every Friday night we’re gathered around the TV watching Supernatural. Not only is it a great thing to have someone around to watch my favorite show with each week, but our personalities and thoughts on Supernatural are so different that it leads to some pretty great discussions.

She is a Dean girl; I prefer Sam. I wanted Jo to stick around and become a hunter; she was okay with her exit. She loves (and by love I mean adores) Castiel; while I think that the episodes without him have been some of the strongest of season six and seven to date.

Before you throw things at me, flame me, or just plain get rude in comments I’m going to explain myself about my thoughts on Castiel and we’re also going to talk about Bobby’s exit in the article. These are two points that the fandom seems to be split over, and I’m curious to hear your thoughts.

There are spoilers ahead, so be sure not to read if you’re not caught up with Supernatural! You’ve been warned.

Castiel’s Return
 

Castiel

By now we all know that Misha Collins will be returning as Castiel. So this can put to rest the debate that Cas didn’t get a decent goodbye at the beginning of season seven with his Leviathan-drowing-the-angel exit.

On this note, I would like to ask the fandom to take a breath, and to explain to me why people thought that Cas wouldn’t be back. His exit was so underwhelming, and based on the importance of his character since the fourth season, I personally had no doubt that Castiel would be returning.

Obviously I was part of the minority in this thinking as Cas’ exit caused an UPROAR with fans. If I remember right, people were/are still furious with the writers for this lack of a dramatic exit. Now I pose this question to you Supernatural fans. When have the writers ever let us down?

Aside from most of season six (which was weak), but we’ll overlook that.

Of COURSE Castiel is returning! And of course Dean will be able to hand him his trench coat and they can hug and be reunited while we as a fandom all sob into our ice cream.

Bobby – Ghost, Spirit, or Moved On?
 

I would like to take a moment of silence to remember Bobby Singer.

Remember how I said my BFF and I pretty much have opposite opinions on everything having to do with Supernatural? Well, it only continues when it comes to Bobby.

Like we all know, our dear Sam and Dean lost their surrogate father a few episodes ago when he was shot by Dick Roman. I think we can all agree that Dean pretty much said all of our thoughts with his: “He’ll be fine – it was only one bullet…”; but it turns out that it was one very well placed bullet.

We did see Bobby flat line, but his death was sort of left to the imagination… we weren’t sure until last week that Bobby was in fact, dead.

Now here’s where the BFF and I have different thoughts. I don’t think that Bobby is gone for good (however, I do think Bobby was given a sound send off and if he is gone, his exit was perfect), but I’m sort of with Sam’s train of thought that the strange things happening around the boys (papers moving, beers being drunk) are wishful thinking that it’s Bobby’s spirit.

The BFF disagrees completely. Even mention Bobby’s death and she’ll shake her head and utter simply: “Nope.” In BFF speak this means that Bobby is not in fact dead, and that he will be returning. Ask her why she thinks this and she simply replies with “because he’s Bobby.”

So, Supernatural fandom – what do you think? Bobby is obviously dead if the boys burned his body, but are the strange happenings and clues really Bobby talking to his sons from beyond? What do you think?

 

I want to make it clear that I mean absolutely no disrespect with these topics. I love this fandom, and adore listening to different perspectives other than mine. Most of the time it opens my eyes to theories that I never thought of, so varying opinions are welcome!

That said – please, PLEASE, if you were one of the fans angry at Cas’ “exit”, let me know why you thought he was gone for good. And on the same note, also comment away on your theories for his return.

Same for Bobby! I’m team “Bobby’s gotta come back”, but would love to hear from the other camp as well! Don’t forget to check out our Supernatural reviews after each new episode as well! We love to hear your thoughts and reactions!

Until next week Supernatural fans!

Follow me on Twitter! @popKelture

By | February 16, 2012 | 16 Comments
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  • http://twitter.com/JessicaBreaux1 Jessica Breaux

    Very interesting article, Kelly. I like it. I’ll throw in my two cents:

    I’ll start with Cas. I, like you, had no doubt that Castiel would return for a (hopefully) more fitting send-off. The writers, producers, and other PTB know this fandom and they know how attached we get to these characters. They knew that having Cas disappear underwater wasn’t going to cut it, so I’m fairly certain that they’ve been planning on Cas’s return since the beginning of the season. As much as I love Cas, I really hope these last few episodes are the last we see of him. At least in angel form. I’ve always felt that S6 was mostly lackluster is because TPTB and the fandom love Cas (and Misha Collins) so much that they were trying to keep him around despite the fact that the angels storyline had run its course. I think this season they realized that no matter how much we all love Cas, keeping him (and by extension the other angels) around marginalizes Dean and Sam drastically. Since the story isn’t really about the angels and their bad behavior, but about the Winchesters and their hero’s journey, then I think it’s time to go ahead and give a proper good-bye to a wonderful character. I disagree with you about Cas’s contribution to the overall storyline and character development though. I enjoyed watching the evolution of Dean and Cas’s friendship and eventual brotherhood. It was an especially important relationship for Dean because he doesn’t love or trust easily/quickly and it was nice watching Dean open up his heart to someone else again. I also thought Cas’s evolution was interesting. He started out as just a soldier following orders, then he became attached to these rebellious humans, he rebelled, fell, and became this awkward human/angel hybrid sort of being. S6 explored (albeit not particularly well) some of the more human attributes that Cas developed (arrogance, pride, dishonesty) and how the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. I’m going to hold off final judgment until I see exactly what they’re planning to do with Cas, but it’s always a welcome treat to see Misha Collins on my screen.

    Now on to Bobby. I love me some Bobby Singer, and I am not ashamed to admit that I sobbed openly during “Death’s Door.” It still pains me every time one of the characters says that Bobby is dead. One thing that did occur to me during “Slice Girls” was even though they burned Bobby’s bones, spirits can attach to objects and Dean is carrying around Bobby’s flask. So it’s possible his spirit is still attached to the flask. Every time something “ghostly” has happened, Dean’s had Bobby’s flask. However, I am not itching to see Bobby hanging around as a ghost. There are several reasons for this: (1) I feel like it does a great disservice to the character. Bobby has been the rock that Sam and (especially) Dean have depended on for most of their lives. Although we didn’t see all of it, through flashbacks and conversations we learned that the brothers Winchester spent a great deal of time with Bobby when they were kids. Bobby was more than just a surrogate father for the Boys, he was a hero in his own right. He fought a good fight and he deserves to rest in peace. (2) Bobby was a hunter. He knows that there’s no way for him to get back into his body (without someone making a demon deal) and he’s just gonna be stuck in limbo forever. He’s seen what that does to the spirit. I just don’t see him choosing to hang out in limbo forever. (3) Finally, Bobby got a hero’s sendoff. “Death’s Door” was one of the most stellar episodes SPN has ever done, and that’s saying something. As odd as it may seem, to have Bobby hanging around seems like it cheapens the awesomeness of his good-bye. I will, once again, reserve my final judgment until I see how (or even if) the writers decide to handle ghost Bobby though. I was initially opposed to the idea of ghost Jo too, but after watching the episode I thought the scenes between her and Dean were beautifully bittersweet and tender. I have faith in the writers because they haven’t let me down yet, so we’ll just have to see how it all turns out.

  • http://amberjgardner.com Amber J Gardner

    When I saw the last episodes of Season 6 and the first episodes of Season 7, I was not very aware of the online fandom. I never looked for a spoiler in my life.

    Then the whole Castiel thing happened and SPN got my attention again, cause I didn’t see it coming and I thought it was a perfect solution to give new life to a dying show.
    That said, I loved the first and second episodes of Season 7. I thought they were perfect. I always assumed Castiel was going to be back…until I went online.I found the CW message boards (you have no idea how glad I am that they’re gone) and found all this hate and all these vague messages about Castiel and started to question my expectations.

    The thing is. I had riddiculous high expectations for Season 7 and the internet kind of brought it down. Also there were quite a few of lame episodes as well. And I was upset and pissed. 

    Not because I was a Castiel fan, But because if they didn’t bring him back, it would have been horrible storywise. It was be sooo bad. Worse of the worse. You don’t give a character such an important role (can’t get any higher than thinking you’re God), create such a mess, then just say bye and be replaced with another bad guy without a proper send off to boot. That’s crappy storytelling and a huge waste of an opportunity.

    Luckily my sanity returned when I stopped reading other fan’s opinions, saw the news that Castiel was INDEED returning and saw Death’s Door. Bobby’s send off was so amazingly brilliant, it reminded me that the writers knew what they were doing. 

    So yeah, blind fanaticism can be very bad…and very catching lol

  • http://twitter.com/jacobsmommy2000 Heather Wright

    Ok, here goes:  both Bobby AND Cas’ characters have been done an injustice this season.  I assumed they 86′d Castiel simply b/c the boys had been so dependent on him to save their necks since season 4.  Evil Gamble had said herself, they were going back to their “roots” this season, ala season 1, and just have the boys alone on the road… And what they did to Bobby was just plain WRONG.  Yes, I know they salted and burned him, to quote Jensen Ackles “that’s what we do…”, but dang it, Bobby?!? Jim Beaver was arguably my favorite character on the show, and I don’t care if they killed him off to facilitate the plot or not, it’s just WRONG.  I want Bobby back too, but right now I will accept Cas’ return as a small victory.

  • Lisa Gordon

    Hi, this is the first time I’ve been on this site so thought I’d add some views on this debate:
     
    First of all Cas. Personally I love Misha Collins and regard myself a minion to the end, however, I feel that the writers may have lost track of the show a long time ago because of Castiel. I felt that S4 and 5 were the greatest series this show’s ever produced with perfect plot lines, beautiful characterisation and amazing acting with Castiel becoming almost like a third brother with popularity ratings to match. Because of these ratings the writers have been forced to keep him and make him into a character that was never meant to be, bringing the emphasis off the Winchesters and their battles and onto his struggles, which worked well in S4 and 5 when the focus was on the apocalypse with angels and their loyalties being a key theme. When this plot came to it’s end in S6 however,it didn’t leave much room for Castiel any more as the show began to go back to being about our boys, yet without him being around as much there was a sense that a key part of the show was missing. When the big twist at the end happened Cas fans (or least I) could almost see the end of our favourite baby in a trenchcoat, knowing that if he didn’t get killed off he would become (and was already halfway to becoming) the opposite of who we knew and loved and we’d end up hating him (or more brutally, the writers). I’m not going to lie I was furious and devasted when Levithan Cas drowned as I felt it undermined one of the greatest characters there has ever been on this show and I look forward to seeing Cas come back, be reunited with his trenchcoat, help the boys finish what he started and make amends with Dean (and find a way to fix Sam!) but when all that’s over I think the best case scenario for this character would be for him to leave, not die (my heart would break if I had endure another Cas death!) just begin a new life away from everything so he won’t get misled, that way, there’s always a chance for him to return if need be….(unlikeliness 100%)
     
    Now on to Bobby. I love Bobby, have done from the get-go, he was strong, determined, smart, funny, sad, inspirational and a great asset to the brothers and the show. Although his death was sad and has definately broken Dean I’m actually okay with it (please don’t hate me!). Bobby lived a long life as a hunter which is uncommon and he survived some ridiculous things that NOBODY else would have. His death was peaceful (even though I cried), he came to terms with the most difficult and painful experiences and regrets of his life and made peace with them before helping the boys one last time and reliving one of the happiest, proudest moments of his life. It was the perfect death (if there is such a thing) and to bring him back would only mean more stress, more bitch fights between the brothers to sort out, more physically and emotionally hard work and many more terrible things for him to endure. I hope he’s not a ghost and I don’t want to see him back because it’s much nicer to think he finally has some well deserved peace. I also don’t like how easily people come back from the dead on this show, it just makes it seem like there is no finality to anything as long as you have friends in the right places
     
    A final note about Jo (and Ellen). I cried SO MUCH when they died, and I still feel they should have lived. This show has one HUGE flaw of not having enough (or any as the case is at the moment) strong female characters, from S1 women have been depicted as weak and existing only for occasional sex scenes with any hunters/exceptions to this rule being killed off asap. Meg is a fantastic badass exception but sadly also a demon meaning her time will probably end soon. Although Jo and Ellen are gone I’d love to see some similar female characters befriend (not upstage) the boys… I’m also patiently awaiting the return of the good ol’ Impala and of course Carry On My Wayward Son in the intro….
     
      Got a bit carried away myself there! Hope I haven’t bored you,  :)

    • http://www.kelly-michele.com Kelly

      Hi Lisa!!  Thanks so much for the comments and welcome! I’ll reply in more length later, but I wanted to say hello!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_AUTTD7E4BYAD7MOW5BFMA2QKLA O

    I think the show lost it’s way the second they decided to go past Kripke’s end date. It’s no coincidence that the second half of season 5 is so bad. Season 6 was awful with the odd exception and season 7 is just treading water. It’s felt completely aimless with maybe 3 episodes being really worthy Supernatural episodes. I don’t think it has anything to do with the characters. They’ve just run out of ideas. It happens. 
    As far as Castiel in season 6 goes, it felt to me like he was barely featured. And most of the heaven stuff happened off screen so I can’t really accept that the angel storyline was the problem with that season. I think that’s letting the writers off the hook. 

  • Dee

    Great article, Kelly. We share a lot of the same opinions, except that I’m probably the only person in America that honestly likes both Sam and Dean equally.

    I had a little problem with the idea of getting back to basics (like they were in Season 1) where it’s only Sam and Dean and they go back to hunting basic monsters. It works on occasion, but at this stage in the game there are just too many Leviathans out there, along with Demons, who know who Sam and Dean are. It’s not just a matter of hunting the occasional monster, using the fathers journal as a guide, and traveling the countryside. Since the end of Season 2, the hunters have been too greatly outnumbered to go it alone, especially now with the release of all the Leviathans. They would need an army of hunters to conquer them, and two just isn’t enough of an army.

    The way I see it, there would be a few possibilities where they could bring Bobby back, and I don’t mean as some ghost or spirit who shows up in a shadowy form and helps them from time to time, I mean back back, for real.

    There’s always the possibility that Cas could bring Bobby back as some sort of apology for everything he did to them in the beginning of Season 7, although that doesn’t seem too likely. There’s also Crowley, who being King of Hell should be able to have some sort of clout to resurrect Bobby from the dead. However, I don’t anticipate Sam or Dean doing any more demon deals.

    However, does anyone else remember Jesse? The little boy who was half demon and half human? Personally, it’s a stretch, but I would think that he would be the best bet to help out and bring Bobby back to life. It could be some sort of scenario where they meet back up with him, help him out somehow and he rewards them by giving Bobby back to them. I mean, the writers kept him alive for some reason, right? Not too many monsters escape (although we’ve seen a few this season) so I can’t help but wonder if they had some sort of plan for him in the future.

    Either way, I think Bobby will be back in some sort of form by next season. I’m hoping not in a ghost form, but for real, and I hope they find a good way to do it. There were too many loose ends with his death. We didn’t see him go with the reaper, we didn’t witness any burning of the body (the way we did with the father.) and too many things are moving around. Also, the bottle of scotch with the note “Okay, you ass, you win this one.” -R  maybe the R didn’t stand for Rufus??? Maybe it was ‘Reaper” another stretch, but possible….

    I guess we’ll have to just wait and see. Wow, this turned out way longer than I planned. Sorry for that!

  • cas ryan

    probably gonna get bashed for this but wth i hate bobby and i hope to god i never see him again cas on the other hand he has helped me through some tough times so i can never say that i wish he would never return i just love him too much to even think the words 

  • Sil

    See, I liked season 6, and everytime someone says it was bad, I’m baffled. But that’s something for another time.

    As for Castiel and Bobby… I’m almost afraid to say this, but I never was a huge Castiel fan. I liked him well enough, but just as a side character who aided the boys story. I was intrigued by his story line, but I didn’t mind him going, as his time on the show had clearly come to an end. He might have even stayed on to long, if you ask me. For that reason, I am actually a bit scared about his return… I really hope the writers will handle it the way THEY want to, not the way some of the more loud fans want it too. And I really hope he won’t stay, ’cause he doesn’t fit in the picture anymore.
    Bobby… I do think he’s dead, but I don’t think he’s completely gone. How it’ll all play out though, I have no idea. I trust the writers, ’cause they haven’t let me down yet. :)

    • http://twitter.com/JessicaBreaux1 Jessica Breaux

      Re your bafflement over S6, I can tell you why it’s not one of my favorite seasons. I don’t know about anyone else though. It’s not that I thought S6 was awful because it wasn’t. What it was, was uneven and choppy with more misses than hits. There were too many storylines that never went anywhere and the big bads of the season were weak to say the least. If the writers had just focused on developing Eve, the emergence of the Alphas, and the introduction of the Campbells that would’ve made for a much more cohesive season. As it was, Eve was just a red herring, the Alphas storyline and all the monsters acting weird was barely dealt with before it was dropped, and we never got to learn very much about any of the Campbells except that Grandpa was a world class jerk. Cas kept randomly appearing telling us that there was a war in heaven, but that took place entirely off-screen, so we as the audience were never allowed to become invested in that fight. Furthermore, the heavenly civil war being the focus of the season marginalized Sam and Dean in a way that made SPN feel unsteady and forced. The Winchesters didn’t really have a dog in the heavenly civil war, and they couldn’t affect the outcome one way or the other. The angels dealing with Sam and Dean made more sense in S4 and S5 because the Winchesters are the vessels and the angels needed them. Now that the apocalypse has been averted and the war is just among the angels, what do Sam and Dean have to do with that? I think there were some good episodes in S6, but as a whole it wasn’t nearly as strong as I know SPN can be.

  • Lmjenn65

    I would like to think that the writers wanted to take some time to focus on Sam and Dean’s realtionship, and in order to do that, they had to remove Bobby and Cas from the picture..hence their sendoffs. I’m ok with that, but Cas did bring additional drama to the whole supernatural environment ( demons, monsters and such). I believe after some time has elasped enough for us, the audience, to ingest the fundamental plot being driven is obvious to us. That would be that Sam and Dean have yet to fully define their relationship as hunters, and as brothers. This is has enabled the audience to see Dean at his most vulnerable, and Sam at his crossroads moment of life. I am looking forward to Cas coming back because he will be the key that turns which direction the boys’ relationship goes and which way they choose to go in terms of their individual lives.

  • http://dahne1.blogspot.com/ Dahne

    BoBby’s a ghost.  He will be back.  Dean is right.  As far as Cas goes, I’m glad he will get the exit he deserves but I am counting on there being an exit.  I’m with you.  The non-Cas episodes tend to be better in my opinion.  And no, I didn’t think Cas was gone for good either.  No way they let a major character have such a lame ending.  That’s the only consolation we get sometimes.

  • Zach Simon

    Admittedly, I’ve taught myself to become attached to NOBODY. My favorite dead character, Bobby aside, was Jo, and it killed me to see her go. From there I decided to simply not let myself grow attached to important side-characters. As much as I love Bobby and Cas, I’m willing to let them go. This forces Sam and Dean to grow. The development is what I love so much about the show, and I’m willing to see what happens next.

    One thing that does worry me (Read: Writers; do this) though is that I keep wondering if Bobby’s going to return, but in a far darker way. Since Bobby’s memories seemed to be ripped away from him, what is his spirit becomes trapped, and begins rampaging, trying to figure out what happened to him; forcing the boys to actually have to take him down.

    I’d love to see that happen, due to the sheer emotional side of the story, but it would be so painful…

  • Kat

    Since I am the above-mentioned BFF, I feel I should share my thoughts here.

    I agree – Cas’s exit wasn’t really an exit. It was more of a detour. I’ve unfortunately come across a few spoilers (damn video interview with Jensen. He’s so pretty I just couldn’t turn it off!) so I know a bit more than I’d like, but I never had a doubt that Cas would be back, in SOME form or another. Now, whether that form is my dear, sweet, perfect Castiel, we won’t know until the episode airs. But the writers love us and and they love their characters and I KNOW they won’t let Cas REALLY die without his trench coat!

    I don’t care that Bobby’s exit was perfect and sweet and gloriously sad. I will remain in denial forever, if need be. I mean, it’s BOBBY!

  • http://www.reddwarfmedia.com Steven

    I have to agree.  The implication is that Bobby is still around.  That he just could not let his boys go and thus refused to go with the reaper.  What that means to the show and what will happen to the character in the future is up in the air.  I for one would rather they leave him dead.  Too many characters have been brought back already.  I love Bobby, but if the story calls for him to die then kill him off and leave it that way.

    Steven
    http://www.reddwarfmedia.com

  • Rufhot

    Imagine if bobby didn’t really died, and  just got revived by medics, but they say or act like he died to dick think that he’s dead?

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